Recorded live at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum's 50th-Anniversary Reunion for former Vietnam War POWs in May 2023, Sid Stockdale, one of Vice Admiral Jim and League of Wives co-founder Sybil Stockdale's four sons, joins Tyler to discuss what he remembers of his parents' critical roles in the Vietnam POW crisis and how their impact reverberates five decades later.
Sid's book, A World Apart: Growing Up Stockdale During Vietnam, is available now.
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[00:00:00] A quick note, this is a ten-part chronological docu-series. We recommend starting at Chapter
[00:00:05] 1 and for the best immersive listening experience, headphones are suggested.
[00:00:18] Welcome back to CAPTURED, Shot Down In Vietnam, a production of the Richard Nixon Presidential
[00:00:23] Library.
[00:00:25] As described in the final episode of our series, in May of 1973, three months after the
[00:00:31] safe return of hundreds of American POWs from North Vietnamese captivity, President Richard
[00:00:36] Nixon and First Lady Pat Nixon hosted an extravagant dinner at the White House in honor of
[00:00:41] the former prisoner's sacrifices and resilience. The former POWs and their guests swind,
[00:00:47] dined, and danced the evening away in what still holds the record as the largest dinner
[00:00:52] in White House history. Exactly 50 years later, this past May of 2023, the Richard Nixon
[00:00:58] Presidential Library recreated this special evening to coincide with a weekend of reunion
[00:01:03] events dedicated to the former POWs and their families. In this special bonus content, join
[00:01:10] us for a glimpse of that weekend featuring interviews with some of the major characters
[00:01:14] in our story while they attend the 50-year reunion of their release at the Library
[00:01:19] in Newer Belinda, California. In this episode we'll hear from Sid Stockdale, son of
[00:01:25] Vice Admiral Jim Stockdale and his wife, Sybil, founder of the League of Wives as he
[00:01:29] tells us what he remembers of that time and his parents' role in the Vietnam POW crisis.
[00:01:35] Sid's father, Jim, had the most senior rank of all the POWs, and since they retained
[00:01:41] chain of command and captivity, Jim became the de facto leader of the hundreds of American
[00:01:46] servicemen behind bars. Here now is an interview with Sid Stockdale, recorded during the
[00:01:51] reunion event. My name is Sid Stockdale and I'm the second
[00:01:57] of four sons of Admiral James Stockdale and Sybil Stockdale, and I am here for this 53
[00:02:03] reunion just to see these guys once again shake their hand and look at the exhibits,
[00:02:08] it's a fantastic opportunity to reconnect with people.
[00:02:11] When did you lose your parents? My father passed away in 2005 and my mother passed away
[00:02:17] in 2015, and about 2017 when I retired from teaching I taught for 40 years. I started
[00:02:28] doing some research into what I experienced as a young boy. I was 11 when my father was
[00:02:33] shot down going into the sixth grade and I was 18 years old and getting ready to go
[00:02:39] up to college when he returned. Being in the household with mom and my two younger brothers,
[00:02:47] with everything that she was involved with creating the league, having meetings there, traveling,
[00:02:53] it was a very traumatic experience to live through. I've written this book, a world apart
[00:03:00] growing up Stockdale during Vietnam. When I started writing, I didn't anticipate writing
[00:03:05] a book. I was just journaling. During my whole life, I could not really remember very
[00:03:12] much about the first two and a half years after my father was shot down. I think I've
[00:03:17] talked to professionals and work with professionals and they said no doubt you were bombarded with
[00:03:22] pretty severe trauma. One natural reaction is that you start to shut down, you just
[00:03:28] barrier a lot of that and so I couldn't access it. As an adult, I couldn't figure out or
[00:03:35] remember very much about when I was 11 or 12. Besides the fact that there was a lot of confusion
[00:03:41] at school, confusion wherever I went and of course it was I think a response to what I was
[00:03:48] going through. So in 2016, one year after my mom passed, I received a copy of her diary.
[00:03:56] The first time I'd ever seen it. It had been buried in a bunch of papers in the attic and when
[00:04:01] we were uncovering things, it appeared and I started to read it and it allowed me to put
[00:04:06] things together for the first time so I started journaling and that led then to more research
[00:04:14] and pretty soon I found myself putting together what was going to be the book that sits here
[00:04:19] on the table today. What would you say is like the thesis of the book? What's the main point
[00:04:25] you're trying to make? The main point, this is pretty much the 40th anniversary. Next year
[00:04:29] will be the 40th anniversary of my parents book coming out and I wanted to revive their story in
[00:04:35] a way. Their book is very dense, very detailed, it's beautifully written but part of what I wanted
[00:04:42] to do is I wanted to revive it. I also wanted to thank some of the people who helped me when I was
[00:04:49] in a tough spot. My grandparents, my mother's parents, I went to boarding school finally for high school
[00:04:57] and the faculty there were fantastic and boarding school gave me a place where I could finally process
[00:05:03] what I had gone through and not have to be in the POW experience every day all day long and so it
[00:05:13] was really I was a thanking it is a book about hope and I'm really happy that I finally have it
[00:05:18] put together. How would you now that we get to talk to the source? Your dad has talked about a lot
[00:05:25] right he's one of the different leaders of the POWs he was one of the higher ranking people
[00:05:29] shot down. Your mom did start the league of wives, people talked about your parents a lot.
[00:05:34] Right how would you put them? How would you describe? They were individually incredible people
[00:05:41] and as a couple they were even more so. I remember when my dad came home after prison and a lot of
[00:05:47] people asked about that what was he like when he got home and I was so impressed I was 18.
[00:05:54] I was so impressed by how he was patient with every single all four of us boys. My older brother
[00:06:02] was 22. I was 18. My brother below me was 14 and my youngest brother was 11 and he connected with
[00:06:12] us all individually. He was very as I said very patient. He took time to go on outings with each of
[00:06:19] us and really get to know us and connect with us and the stories that he would tell about what he
[00:06:26] went through were incredible and my mother learning about my mother's juggling so much I could tell when
[00:06:34] my mother was really getting ready to have some emotional breakdown problems and it was hard to
[00:06:40] watch but when you think about what she was trying to accomplish really leading the charge with
[00:06:46] the top brass and the Pentagon going to Senators congressman before 1969 really pleading for them to
[00:06:55] do something about the POW situation clandestinely communicating with my father in prison. A lot of
[00:07:01] people don't know that in January of 1967 she was becoming so absorbed by the POW issue that she took
[00:07:10] a teaching job. She was teaching junior high school reading in English down next to the Mexican border
[00:07:16] in San Isidro so she was just a dynamic energetic person who was she was going to do anything that
[00:07:25] she possibly needed to do to get those guys home safely and she accomplished it. Do you think
[00:07:31] she started anything for women in general in terms of their own empowerment maybe in specific
[00:07:37] military wives having right did any of their own oh very much right now you may know that in
[00:07:42] Coronado there's a project to flip to build memorial celebratory statue that will commemorate
[00:07:49] the work of these women and the League of Families and all the people who are involved with that
[00:07:54] project are women who feel empowered by being able to create this project the first of its kind
[00:08:00] in the country to celebrate military spouses which seems incredible to me. I grew up in Coronado
[00:08:06] the town of Coronado has always been run by military spouses the whole everything about its
[00:08:12] functioning is run by them and I feel so strongly that it's vital that we not only acknowledge
[00:08:20] them but recognize what what's going on in those households what's going on with those kids what's
[00:08:25] going on when men are overseas and when they're deployed to far off places do endangered stuff.
[00:08:30] swept under the rug a little more 50 years ago very much yeah so still more work to do.
[00:08:36] Yeah more communication the military's done a very good job they have on-budzman that are embedded
[00:08:44] in the various squadrons and throughout the military bases and they're the liaison for the families
[00:08:52] that position didn't exist back in the 60s in the 70s and it's it's a great honor that every year
[00:08:57] there are two on-budzman who are celebrated by receiving the civil stock tail on-budzman award
[00:09:03] yeah she said she is a strong woman who is remembered and thankfully so. I have to ask you just
[00:09:10] about one funny thing okay there's a story of a party that came off for you when your dad came
[00:09:17] home from the Gulf of Tonk and I believe it was like early on 64 and he came home he was
[00:09:22] on leave there's this crazy party yes can you tell me about that party yeah I was there okay
[00:09:28] perfect and you can really tell us about it yeah no it was after the it was after the Tonk and
[00:09:33] Gulf the war was going on the squadron came back they were getting retooled to go back over
[00:09:38] in they're gonna deploy in March of 16-5 and about a week before they were going to leave
[00:09:44] mom and dad dad was the commanding officer of the squadron and it's traditional that the
[00:09:48] commanding officer and his wife threw a party but this is what I didn't expect mom hired a high
[00:09:54] school band Coronado High School they rolled up all the rugs in the living room the band came in they
[00:10:00] set up they started playing this rock and roll music everybody started dancing and then in the
[00:10:05] middle of the event mom pulls out a wig that was a beetle wig this was it was all the rage to have
[00:10:11] a beetle wig and so these pilots who had showed up many of them in their flight suits and just right
[00:10:17] off the airfield were passing around the beetle wig and dancing and just having a great tight out
[00:10:23] there is a fun fun evening have you ever been to a party that tops its sense oh yes sorry mom
[00:10:34] I just wanted to tell one more story that I've always enjoyed it was a memory that still makes
[00:10:40] me laugh to this day the election in 1968 was a very tense election for a lot of reasons but in our
[00:10:47] household it was extremely tense because the Nixon camp was the only political camp that had
[00:10:52] signaled to the League of Families that if elected they were going to see to it that the men were
[00:10:59] not only recognized that their awful treatment was acknowledged publicly but that they were going
[00:11:04] to work hard to see to it that when a when an armistice was signed that the return of the POWs
[00:11:10] was going to be honorable and it was going to be well done so my mom as the election of 68
[00:11:15] build up she was getting I could tell she was getting quite agitated and she'd have
[00:11:20] louder phone calls and longer phone calls and we my brothers and I were in the den
[00:11:27] watching television one evening and I think we're watching the monkeys it was a TV show at time
[00:11:33] moms out in the kitchen and she has her wooden bowl and her Yankee chopper
[00:11:37] and she used to chop lettuce in it when we had tacos and I was in the den and I heard the chop
[00:11:45] and then the chopping proceeded to get incredibly vigorous and louder to the point when I
[00:11:51] I went into the kitchen I said well it's going on in here and she said she was she was laughed
[00:11:57] she said if you have to know I have Robert McNamara's head in this bowl and I'm describing what
[00:12:04] I think about his policy in Vietnam and then she burst into laughter and I laughed too and it was
[00:12:10] just a great moment I wouldn't want to be on the other side of your mom's
[00:12:18] thank you I'm excited for your book a world apart growing up stocktale during Vietnam
[00:12:22] Sydney Bailey Stocktail and people can get it on Amazon or wherever Amazon Barnes and Noble
[00:12:27] local independent bookstores yeah thank you very much