Bonus Episode | An Interview w/ Sid Stockdale

[00:00:00] A quick note, this is a ten-part chronological docu-series. We recommend starting at Chapter

[00:00:05] 1 and for the best immersive listening experience, headphones are suggested.

[00:00:18] Welcome back to CAPTURED, Shot Down In Vietnam, a production of the Richard Nixon Presidential

[00:00:23] Library.

[00:00:25] As described in the final episode of our series, in May of 1973, three months after the

[00:00:31] safe return of hundreds of American POWs from North Vietnamese captivity, President Richard

[00:00:36] Nixon and First Lady Pat Nixon hosted an extravagant dinner at the White House in honor of

[00:00:41] the former prisoner's sacrifices and resilience. The former POWs and their guests swind,

[00:00:47] dined, and danced the evening away in what still holds the record as the largest dinner

[00:00:52] in White House history. Exactly 50 years later, this past May of 2023, the Richard Nixon

[00:00:58] Presidential Library recreated this special evening to coincide with a weekend of reunion

[00:01:03] events dedicated to the former POWs and their families. In this special bonus content, join

[00:01:10] us for a glimpse of that weekend featuring interviews with some of the major characters

[00:01:14] in our story while they attend the 50-year reunion of their release at the Library

[00:01:19] in Newer Belinda, California. In this episode we'll hear from Sid Stockdale, son of

[00:01:25] Vice Admiral Jim Stockdale and his wife, Sybil, founder of the League of Wives as he

[00:01:29] tells us what he remembers of that time and his parents' role in the Vietnam POW crisis.

[00:01:35] Sid's father, Jim, had the most senior rank of all the POWs, and since they retained

[00:01:41] chain of command and captivity, Jim became the de facto leader of the hundreds of American

[00:01:46] servicemen behind bars. Here now is an interview with Sid Stockdale, recorded during the

[00:01:51] reunion event. My name is Sid Stockdale and I'm the second

[00:01:57] of four sons of Admiral James Stockdale and Sybil Stockdale, and I am here for this 53

[00:02:03] reunion just to see these guys once again shake their hand and look at the exhibits,

[00:02:08] it's a fantastic opportunity to reconnect with people.

[00:02:11] When did you lose your parents? My father passed away in 2005 and my mother passed away

[00:02:17] in 2015, and about 2017 when I retired from teaching I taught for 40 years. I started

[00:02:28] doing some research into what I experienced as a young boy. I was 11 when my father was

[00:02:33] shot down going into the sixth grade and I was 18 years old and getting ready to go

[00:02:39] up to college when he returned. Being in the household with mom and my two younger brothers,

[00:02:47] with everything that she was involved with creating the league, having meetings there, traveling,

[00:02:53] it was a very traumatic experience to live through. I've written this book, a world apart

[00:03:00] growing up Stockdale during Vietnam. When I started writing, I didn't anticipate writing

[00:03:05] a book. I was just journaling. During my whole life, I could not really remember very

[00:03:12] much about the first two and a half years after my father was shot down. I think I've

[00:03:17] talked to professionals and work with professionals and they said no doubt you were bombarded with

[00:03:22] pretty severe trauma. One natural reaction is that you start to shut down, you just

[00:03:28] barrier a lot of that and so I couldn't access it. As an adult, I couldn't figure out or

[00:03:35] remember very much about when I was 11 or 12. Besides the fact that there was a lot of confusion

[00:03:41] at school, confusion wherever I went and of course it was I think a response to what I was

[00:03:48] going through. So in 2016, one year after my mom passed, I received a copy of her diary.

[00:03:56] The first time I'd ever seen it. It had been buried in a bunch of papers in the attic and when

[00:04:01] we were uncovering things, it appeared and I started to read it and it allowed me to put

[00:04:06] things together for the first time so I started journaling and that led then to more research

[00:04:14] and pretty soon I found myself putting together what was going to be the book that sits here

[00:04:19] on the table today. What would you say is like the thesis of the book? What's the main point

[00:04:25] you're trying to make? The main point, this is pretty much the 40th anniversary. Next year

[00:04:29] will be the 40th anniversary of my parents book coming out and I wanted to revive their story in

[00:04:35] a way. Their book is very dense, very detailed, it's beautifully written but part of what I wanted

[00:04:42] to do is I wanted to revive it. I also wanted to thank some of the people who helped me when I was

[00:04:49] in a tough spot. My grandparents, my mother's parents, I went to boarding school finally for high school

[00:04:57] and the faculty there were fantastic and boarding school gave me a place where I could finally process

[00:05:03] what I had gone through and not have to be in the POW experience every day all day long and so it

[00:05:13] was really I was a thanking it is a book about hope and I'm really happy that I finally have it

[00:05:18] put together. How would you now that we get to talk to the source? Your dad has talked about a lot

[00:05:25] right he's one of the different leaders of the POWs he was one of the higher ranking people

[00:05:29] shot down. Your mom did start the league of wives, people talked about your parents a lot.

[00:05:34] Right how would you put them? How would you describe? They were individually incredible people

[00:05:41] and as a couple they were even more so. I remember when my dad came home after prison and a lot of

[00:05:47] people asked about that what was he like when he got home and I was so impressed I was 18.

[00:05:54] I was so impressed by how he was patient with every single all four of us boys. My older brother

[00:06:02] was 22. I was 18. My brother below me was 14 and my youngest brother was 11 and he connected with

[00:06:12] us all individually. He was very as I said very patient. He took time to go on outings with each of

[00:06:19] us and really get to know us and connect with us and the stories that he would tell about what he

[00:06:26] went through were incredible and my mother learning about my mother's juggling so much I could tell when

[00:06:34] my mother was really getting ready to have some emotional breakdown problems and it was hard to

[00:06:40] watch but when you think about what she was trying to accomplish really leading the charge with

[00:06:46] the top brass and the Pentagon going to Senators congressman before 1969 really pleading for them to

[00:06:55] do something about the POW situation clandestinely communicating with my father in prison. A lot of

[00:07:01] people don't know that in January of 1967 she was becoming so absorbed by the POW issue that she took

[00:07:10] a teaching job. She was teaching junior high school reading in English down next to the Mexican border

[00:07:16] in San Isidro so she was just a dynamic energetic person who was she was going to do anything that

[00:07:25] she possibly needed to do to get those guys home safely and she accomplished it. Do you think

[00:07:31] she started anything for women in general in terms of their own empowerment maybe in specific

[00:07:37] military wives having right did any of their own oh very much right now you may know that in

[00:07:42] Coronado there's a project to flip to build memorial celebratory statue that will commemorate

[00:07:49] the work of these women and the League of Families and all the people who are involved with that

[00:07:54] project are women who feel empowered by being able to create this project the first of its kind

[00:08:00] in the country to celebrate military spouses which seems incredible to me. I grew up in Coronado

[00:08:06] the town of Coronado has always been run by military spouses the whole everything about its

[00:08:12] functioning is run by them and I feel so strongly that it's vital that we not only acknowledge

[00:08:20] them but recognize what what's going on in those households what's going on with those kids what's

[00:08:25] going on when men are overseas and when they're deployed to far off places do endangered stuff.

[00:08:30] swept under the rug a little more 50 years ago very much yeah so still more work to do.

[00:08:36] Yeah more communication the military's done a very good job they have on-budzman that are embedded

[00:08:44] in the various squadrons and throughout the military bases and they're the liaison for the families

[00:08:52] that position didn't exist back in the 60s in the 70s and it's it's a great honor that every year

[00:08:57] there are two on-budzman who are celebrated by receiving the civil stock tail on-budzman award

[00:09:03] yeah she said she is a strong woman who is remembered and thankfully so. I have to ask you just

[00:09:10] about one funny thing okay there's a story of a party that came off for you when your dad came

[00:09:17] home from the Gulf of Tonk and I believe it was like early on 64 and he came home he was

[00:09:22] on leave there's this crazy party yes can you tell me about that party yeah I was there okay

[00:09:28] perfect and you can really tell us about it yeah no it was after the it was after the Tonk and

[00:09:33] Gulf the war was going on the squadron came back they were getting retooled to go back over

[00:09:38] in they're gonna deploy in March of 16-5 and about a week before they were going to leave

[00:09:44] mom and dad dad was the commanding officer of the squadron and it's traditional that the

[00:09:48] commanding officer and his wife threw a party but this is what I didn't expect mom hired a high

[00:09:54] school band Coronado High School they rolled up all the rugs in the living room the band came in they

[00:10:00] set up they started playing this rock and roll music everybody started dancing and then in the

[00:10:05] middle of the event mom pulls out a wig that was a beetle wig this was it was all the rage to have

[00:10:11] a beetle wig and so these pilots who had showed up many of them in their flight suits and just right

[00:10:17] off the airfield were passing around the beetle wig and dancing and just having a great tight out

[00:10:23] there is a fun fun evening have you ever been to a party that tops its sense oh yes sorry mom

[00:10:34] I just wanted to tell one more story that I've always enjoyed it was a memory that still makes

[00:10:40] me laugh to this day the election in 1968 was a very tense election for a lot of reasons but in our

[00:10:47] household it was extremely tense because the Nixon camp was the only political camp that had

[00:10:52] signaled to the League of Families that if elected they were going to see to it that the men were

[00:10:59] not only recognized that their awful treatment was acknowledged publicly but that they were going

[00:11:04] to work hard to see to it that when a when an armistice was signed that the return of the POWs

[00:11:10] was going to be honorable and it was going to be well done so my mom as the election of 68

[00:11:15] build up she was getting I could tell she was getting quite agitated and she'd have

[00:11:20] louder phone calls and longer phone calls and we my brothers and I were in the den

[00:11:27] watching television one evening and I think we're watching the monkeys it was a TV show at time

[00:11:33] moms out in the kitchen and she has her wooden bowl and her Yankee chopper

[00:11:37] and she used to chop lettuce in it when we had tacos and I was in the den and I heard the chop

[00:11:45] and then the chopping proceeded to get incredibly vigorous and louder to the point when I

[00:11:51] I went into the kitchen I said well it's going on in here and she said she was she was laughed

[00:11:57] she said if you have to know I have Robert McNamara's head in this bowl and I'm describing what

[00:12:04] I think about his policy in Vietnam and then she burst into laughter and I laughed too and it was

[00:12:10] just a great moment I wouldn't want to be on the other side of your mom's

[00:12:18] thank you I'm excited for your book a world apart growing up stocktale during Vietnam

[00:12:22] Sydney Bailey Stocktail and people can get it on Amazon or wherever Amazon Barnes and Noble

[00:12:27] local independent bookstores yeah thank you very much